Transnegation Roundup/2020/08/27/1 - Revision history

Woozle at 19:12, 11 September 2020

2020-09-11T19:12:36Z

Woozle: Created page with "==Gender Fixée== * {{show/tweet|chasestrangio|1298678363360579586|2020-08-26 13:47|The notion of "biological sex" was developed for the exclusive purpose of being weapo..."

2020-09-11T19:02:55Z

Created page with "==Gender Fixée== * {{show/tweet|chasestrangio|1298678363360579586|2020-08-26 13:47|The notion of "biological sex" was developed for the exclusive purpose of being weapo..."

New page

==Gender Fixée==
* {{show/tweet|chasestrangio|1298678363360579586|2020-08-26 13:47|The notion of "biological sex" was developed for the exclusive purpose of being weaponized against people. Courts are recognizing it. Now you should too.}} (Chase Strangio is a lawyer trans rights activist, and a trans man)
** includes screenshot of a recent court decision ruling that "[[biological sex]]" is a vague term (I think I have this filed somewhere)
** {{show/tweet|FionneOrlander|1298932387800322048|2020-08-27 06:36|Thanks for this ridiculous tweet, will bookmark it for the next time I hear 'No trans activist is promoting sex denialism!'}}
*** {{show/tweet|Woozalia|1298961632656338947|2020-08-27 08:32|How is this sex denialism? It's not arguing "sex doesn't exist"; it's asking "how do we define it? what binary sex do we assign to someone when there are ambiguous indications?"}}
**** {{show/tweet|FionneOrlander|1298962159276380160|2020-08-27 08:34|Ambiguous indications, such as?}}
***** {{show/tweet|Woozalia|1298966206385455105|2020-08-27 08:50|"Biological sex" is a multidimensional similarity cluster -- that is, there are many aspects to it which usually align but sometimes don't. 1/}}
***** {{show/tweet|Woozalia|1298968955080540162|2020-08-27 09:01|Some of the primary ones are: '''1.''' chromosomes '''2.''' genital configuration '''3.''' the role one plays in reproduction (fertilizer or fertilized) '''4.''' whether you host the embryo or not / (I'm assuming you're not willing to consider secondary sexual characteristics as relevant.)}}
****** {{show/tweet|batpatronum|1298974976838692866|2020-08-27 09:25|This is the author of the article that gets misused a lot as evidence for these claims. Here's her clarification}}
******* retweets {{show/tweet|ClaireAinsworth|888365994577735680|2017-07-21 07:52|No, not at all. Two sexes, with a continuum of variation in anatomy/physiology.}} (thread ensues, some missing posts are preserved on [https://web.archive.org/web/20190501144644if_/https://twitter.com/ClaireAinsworth/status/888365994577735680 archive.org])
****** {{show/tweet|FionneOrlander|1298968673533808640|2020-08-27 09:00|You could just say 'But intersex' if that's the argument you're getting at.}} - this has 7 likes as of 2020-09-11
******* {{show/tweet|Woozalia|1298969758583451649|2020-08-27 09:04|Pick a rule that's *clear*, and then we can at least talk about potential problems it may cause. / The "Gender Critical" refusal to even *define* "biological sex", other than what "everyone knows", makes reasoned discussion impossible.}}
******** {{show/tweet|FionneOrlander|1298971457498775552|2020-08-27 09:11|Like if you have or have ever had a penis you are male?}}
********* {{show/tweet|https://twitter.com/Woozalia/status/1298978283405684736|2020-08-27 09:38|Okay, that's mostly unambiguous. / Will you grant that people with ambiguous genitalia, at least, should be able to determine their own sex, since this rule doesn't clearly disambiguate them?}}
********** {{show/tweet|FionneOrlander|1298979726980087810|2020-08-27 09:44|{{hilite|No one determines their own sex}}, anymore then they determine their eye colour. If someone is born with ambiguous genitalia professionals will be contacted to diagnose the developmental sex difference, they will still either be male or female with a DSD.}} (highlight mine)
*********** {{show/tweet|Woozalia|1298980106657030144|2020-08-27 09:46|Okay, so you're saying that when someone is born, a doctor should be the one to decide what their gender is?}}
************ {{show/tweet|FionneOrlander|1298980230850256901|2020-08-27 09:46|Not decide, observe what their sex is.}}
************* {{show/tweet|Woozalia|1298980602465652736|2020-08-27 09:48|Based on what?}} - Fionne never responded to this
************** {{show/tweet|40elephantsmob|1299131860736376832|2020-08-27 19:49|FFS every single day all across the globe, farmers manage to divide heifers/bullocks, ewes/rams, hens/cockerals. Why TF are humans such drama llamas as to assume that we are anything except 99.99999% as simple to divide to male/female than other mammals!}}
*************** {{show/tweet|Woozalia|1300475531507437569|2020-08-31 12:48|So, you're suggesting we should treat humans more like livestock?}} Also, pretty sure ambiguous genitalia happen in livestock, too.
************** {{show/tweet|todopensamient5|1299047941676634114|2020-08-27 14:15|Human beings as mammals that we are have sex: male or female. That one or the other does not have a properly closed scrotal bag or a clitoris that is larger than normal or has a chromosomal abnormality. That doesn't make him trans, nor does he make a third sex. denying the [next tweet] biological reality of the human being, denying the biological reality of other living beings.}}
************** {{show/tweet|todopensamient5|1299048365515247621|2020-08-27 14:17|Biological reality is a Material Reality.}}
*************** {{show/tweet|todopensamient5|1299050089113980928|2020-08-27 14:24|It is also a weapon against people to say that they have two legs and two arms. There are also people who are born without legs or arms or are born without both.}} I ''think'' this is meant as a snark, "'''Is it''' also bad to say..." rather than "it is".

*

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-==Gender Fix&eacute;e==
+==Argumentum ab Phallatio==
 * {{show/tweet|chasestrangio|1298678363360579586|2020-08-26 13:47|The notion of "biological sex" was developed for the exclusive purpose of being weaponized against people. Courts are recognizing it. Now you should too.}} (Chase Strangio is a lawyer trans rights activist, and a trans man)
 ** includes screenshot of a recent court decision ruling that "[[biological sex]]" is a vague term (I think I have this filed somewhere)
@@ Line 11: / Line 11: @@
 ****** {{show/tweet|FionneOrlander|1298968673533808640|2020-08-27 09:00|You could just say 'But intersex' if that's the argument you're getting at.}} - this has 7 likes as of 2020-09-11
 ******* {{show/tweet|Woozalia|1298969758583451649|2020-08-27 09:04|Pick a rule that's *clear*, and then we can at least talk about potential problems it may cause. / The "Gender Critical" refusal to even *define* "biological sex", other than what "everyone knows", makes reasoned discussion impossible.}}
-******** {{show/tweet|FionneOrlander|1298971457498775552|2020-08-27 09:11|Like if you have or have ever had a penis you are male?}}
+******** {{show/tweet|FionneOrlander|1298971457498775552|2020-08-27 09:11|Like {{hilite|if you have or have ever had a penis you are male}}?}} This is punctuated as a question, but I think it's meant to be a sarcastic interrogatory: "have you considered this totally obvious thing that everyone else agrees on?"
-********* {{show/tweet|https://twitter.com/Woozalia/status/1298978283405684736|2020-08-27 09:38|Okay, that's mostly unambiguous. / Will you grant that people with ambiguous genitalia, at least, should be able to determine their own sex, since this rule doesn't clearly disambiguate them?}}
+********* {{show/tweet|Woozalia|1298978283405684736|2020-08-27 09:38|Okay, that's mostly unambiguous. / Will you grant that people with ambiguous genitalia, at least, should be able to determine their own sex, since this rule doesn't clearly disambiguate them?}}
-********** {{show/tweet|FionneOrlander|1298979726980087810|2020-08-27 09:44|{{hilite|No one determines their own sex}}, anymore then they determine their eye colour.  If someone is born with ambiguous genitalia professionals will be contacted to diagnose the developmental sex difference, they will still either be male or female with a DSD.}} (highlight mine)
+********** {{show/tweet|FionneOrlander|1298979726980087810|2020-08-27 09:44|{{hilite|No one determines their own sex}}, anymore then they determine their eye colour.  If someone is born with ambiguous genitalia professionals will be contacted to diagnose the developmental sex difference, they will still either be male or female with a DSD.}} DSD: {{wikipedia|difference in sex development}}
 *********** {{show/tweet|Woozalia|1298980106657030144|2020-08-27 09:46|Okay, so you're saying that when someone is born, a doctor should be the one to decide what their gender is?}}
-************ {{show/tweet|FionneOrlander|1298980230850256901|2020-08-27 09:46|Not decide, observe what their sex is.}}
+************ {{show/tweet|FionneOrlander|1298980230850256901|2020-08-27 09:46|Not decide, {{hilite|observe what their sex is}}.}} There's usually a little label on the underside.
 ************* {{show/tweet|Woozalia|1298980602465652736|2020-08-27 09:48|Based on what?}} - Fionne never responded to this
 ************** {{show/tweet|40elephantsmob|1299131860736376832|2020-08-27 19:49|FFS every single day all across the globe, farmers manage to divide heifers/bullocks, ewes/rams, hens/cockerals. Why TF are humans such drama llamas as to assume that we are anything except 99.99999% as simple to divide to male/female than other mammals!}}
@@ Line 22: / Line 22: @@
 ************** {{show/tweet|todopensamient5|1299048365515247621|2020-08-27 14:17|Biological reality is a Material Reality.}}
 *************** {{show/tweet|todopensamient5|1299050089113980928|2020-08-27 14:24|It is also a weapon against people to say that they have two legs and two arms. There are also people who are born without legs or arms or are born without both.}} I ''think'' this is meant as a snark, "'''Is it''' also bad to say..." rather than "it is".