Transnegation Roundup/2020/08/03 - Revision history

Woozle: might as well keep this page, even though no longer transcluded

2020-10-09T23:45:23Z

might as well keep this page, even though no longer transcluded

Woozle at 23:40, 9 October 2020

2020-10-09T23:40:17Z

Woozle: extracted to subpages

2020-09-09T16:47:53Z

extracted to subpages

Woozle at 00:03, 11 August 2020

2020-08-11T00:03:11Z

Woozle: /* More Gender Essentialism FTW */

2020-08-10T19:03:24Z

More Gender Essentialism FTW

Woozle: /* Bad Argument */

2020-08-10T18:57:28Z

Bad Argument

Woozle at 18:38, 10 August 2020

2020-08-10T18:38:47Z

Woozle at 21:54, 9 August 2020

2020-08-09T21:54:31Z

Woozle at 21:43, 9 August 2020

2020-08-09T21:43:54Z

Woozle at 21:39, 9 August 2020

2020-08-09T21:39:59Z

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 =Transnegation Roundup for Monday, August 3, 2020=
-{{i/sub2|1}}<br clear=both>
+{{i/sub|1}}<br clear=both>
-{{i/sub2|2}}
+{{i/sub|2}}
-{{i/sub2|3}}
+{{i/sub|3}}
-{{i/sub2|4}}
+{{i/sub|4}}

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 =Transnegation Roundup for Monday, August 3, 2020=
-{{i/sub|1}}<br clear=both>
+{{i/sub2|1}}<br clear=both>
-{{i/sub|2}}
+{{i/sub2|2}}
-{{i/sub|3}}
+{{i/sub2|3}}
-{{i/sub|4}}
+{{i/sub2|4}}

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 =Transnegation Roundup for Monday, August 3, 2020=
-=="Wokeness" is the enemy now?==
+{{i/sub|1}}<br clear=both>
-'''[https://twitter.com/wendycockcroft/status/1290226981603143681 06:04 @wendycockcroft]'''<br>
+{{i/sub|2}}
-[[File:EefOl5DXkAA1TU-.png|left]]
+{{i/sub|3}}
+{{i/sub|4}}

@@ Line 6: / Line 6: @@
 I ''think'' the argument here is that because "woke" people aren't willing to throw trans people under the bus by agreeing with... whatever it is that gender-critical activists want (more gatekeeping around transition?), they're endangering (cis) women because more cis men will pretend to be women in order to get into women's spaces and perve on them.
-This never actually happens, though... except the occasional "conservative" trying (and failing) to prove how terrible it would be if that ''did'' happen.
+This never actually happens, though... except the occasional "conservative" trying (and failing) to prove how terrible it would be if that ''did'' happen. {{flag/red|fearmongery}}
 <br clear=both>
 ==Misrepresentation==
@@ Line 14: / Line 14: @@
 * It ''is'' in fact transnegation to require an answer to a question about gender in this context, especially if there are no nonbinary options.
-This misrepresentation has the effect of making trans people & allies look unreasonable.
+This {{flag/red|misrepresentation}} has the effect of making trans people & allies look unreasonable.
 A [https://twitter.com/wendycockcroft/status/1290202578089914368 reshare] with the comment {{q/inline|This is nuts}} was followed by a self-reply blaming Queer Theory:
@@ Line 20: / Line 20: @@
 '''[https://twitter.com/wendycockcroft/status/1290208260587307008 06:49 @wendycockcroft]''' {{q/inline|This is why: Queer theory, the bastard spawn of Postmodernism, thinks normality itself *is* oppression. It won't accept normality and views anything or anyone who is normal, including LGBT persons, as oppressors. It's why they bash transsexuals.}}, with a screenshot excerpted from [https://newdiscourses.com/tftw-queer-theory/ "Queer Theory"] on ''New Discourses''
-Nobody is saying it's not ok to be "normal"; we're just saying "don't bludgeon us with it" -- because the [[issuepedia:Normal/ambiguity|ambiguity]] of the term is often used as a way to condemn behavior that makes them uncomfortable without having to [[issuepedia:burden of proof|demonstrate]] why it's problematic.
+Nobody is saying it's not ok to be "normal"; we're just saying "don't bludgeon us with it" -- because the [[issuepedia:Normal/ambiguity|ambiguity]] of the term is often used as a way to condemn behavior that makes them uncomfortable without having to [[issuepedia:burden of proof|demonstrate]] why it's problematic. {{flag/red|misrepresentation}}
 This kind of ambiguity in general is like red meat for right-wingers; they love to be able to get bad ideas across without actually saying them directly. (See: {{l/ip|dogwhistle}})
@@ Line 40: / Line 40: @@
 Also, there's a clear phobia of anything artificial: your genitals 100% determine your sex, but only if they're the factory originals; surgical corrections are "frankenstein" modifications, grotesque and perverse. (I wonder how she feels about surgical correction of ''other'' forms of birth defect? Or are trans people just special in that only ''they'' are fake if corrected?) ...oh, and yes, there are exceptions to this rule, but only if the change takes place ''naturally'' (e.g. {{l/wp|5&alpha;-Reductase deficiency}}).
-The {{l/ip|appeal to nature}} is an old, old trope which was also used on gay people, interracial marriage, and pretty much anything that made authoritarians feel uncomfortable throughout history. This is ''not'' progressive, much less feminist or pro-woman; it is [[issuepedia:Performative leftism|anti-feminism putting on "pro-woman-face"]]. (Yes, this same person has claimed that trans women are "putting on womanface".)
+The {{flag/red|appeal to nature}} is an old, old trope which was also used on gay people, interracial marriage, and pretty much anything that made authoritarians feel uncomfortable throughout history. This is ''not'' progressive, much less feminist or pro-woman; it is [[issuepedia:Performative leftism|anti-feminism putting on "pro-woman-face"]]. (Yes, this same person has claimed that trans women are "putting on womanface".)

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:03, 10 August 2020
Line 38:		Line 38:
	So... she refuses to define "woman", but apparently if you're born with a vagina you are one, forever and ever, and nothing can ever change that. Sounds magical or possibly religious – suggesting strongly that {{l/ip\|Maya Forstater}}'s request for "religious freedom" protection for her beliefs was actually an admission that they really are based on nothing more than religion.		So... she refuses to define "woman", but apparently if you're born with a vagina you are one, forever and ever, and nothing can ever change that. Sounds magical or possibly religious – suggesting strongly that {{l/ip\|Maya Forstater}}'s request for "religious freedom" protection for her beliefs was actually an admission that they really are based on nothing more than religion.

−	Also, there's a clear phobia of anything artificial -~~- the~~ {{l/ip\|appeal to nature}} is an old, old trope which was also used on gay people ~~and~~ interracial marriage and pretty much anything that made authoritarians feel uncomfortable. This is ''not'' progressive, much less feminist or pro-woman; it is [[issuepedia:Performative leftism\|anti-feminism putting on "pro-woman-face"]]. (Yes, this same person has claimed that trans women are "putting on womanface".)	+	Also, there's a clear phobia of anything artificial: your genitals 100% determine your sex, but only if they're the factory originals; surgical corrections are "frankenstein" modifications, grotesque and perverse. (I wonder how she feels about surgical correction of ''other'' forms of birth defect? Or are trans people just special in that only ''they'' are fake if corrected?) ...oh, and yes, there are exceptions to this rule, but only if the change takes place ''naturally'' (e.g. {{l/wp\|5α-Reductase deficiency}}).
		+
		+	The {{l/ip\|appeal to nature}} is an old, old trope which was also used on gay people, interracial marriage, and pretty much anything that made authoritarians feel uncomfortable throughout history. This is ''not'' progressive, much less feminist or pro-woman; it is [[issuepedia:Performative leftism\|anti-feminism putting on "pro-woman-face"]]. (Yes, this same person has claimed that trans women are "putting on womanface".)

@@ Line 27: / Line 27: @@
 ==Bad Argument==
-'''[https://twitter.com/WilliamShatner/status/1290332692622450688 13:04 @WilliamShatner]''' comes down in support of the [[cis is a slur]] myth: {{q/inline|You are talking about yourself. When you use those descriptors towards someone else especially strangers you are more than likely doing it to express a negative comment or to single them out.}}
+[[File:IMG 20200810 144607706.jpg|thumb|200px|Where's Spock when you need him...]]'''[https://twitter.com/WilliamShatner/status/1290332692622450688 13:04 @WilliamShatner]''' comes down in support of the [[cis is a slur]] myth: {{q/inline|You are talking about yourself. When you use those descriptors towards someone else especially strangers you are more than likely doing it to express a negative comment or to single them out.}}
-Ok... so if I'm willing to use a term to describe myself, then I probably mean it negatively if I'm using it to describe someone else.
+Ok... so if I'm willing to use a term to describe myself, it follows logically that I would intend it negatively if I'm using it to describe someone else.
-Where's Spock when you need him...
+...In a pig's eye.
 ==More Gender Essentialism FTW==
 '''[https://twitter.com/wendycockcroft/status/1290334889607299077 13:13 @wendycockcroft]''' {{q/inline|That will only ever change the outward appearance. Gestation is out for decades and might never happen. You can put a wig, makeup and dresses on a man, you can chop off his two veg and turn his meat inside out but he will always be a man. A Frankenwomb won't make him a woman.}}

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:38, 10 August 2020
Line 34:		Line 34:

	Dammit, Jim.		Dammit, Jim.
		+	==More Gender Essentialism FTW==
		+	'''[https://twitter.com/wendycockcroft/status/1290334889607299077 13:13 @wendycockcroft]''' {{q/inline\|That will only ever change the outward appearance. Gestation is out for decades and might never happen. You can put a wig, makeup and dresses on a man, you can chop off his two veg and turn his meat inside out but he will always be a man. A Frankenwomb won't make him a woman.}}
		+
		+	So... she refuses to define "woman", but apparently if you're born with a vagina you are one, forever and ever, and nothing can ever change that. Sounds magical or possibly religious – suggesting strongly that {{l/ip\|Maya Forstater}}'s request for "religious freedom" protection for her beliefs was actually an admission that they really are based on nothing more than religion.
		+
		+	Also, there's a clear phobia of anything artificial -- the {{l/ip\|appeal to nature}} is an old, old trope which was also used on gay people and interracial marriage and pretty much anything that made authoritarians feel uncomfortable. This is ''not'' progressive, much less feminist or pro-woman; it is [[issuepedia:Performative leftism\|anti-feminism putting on "pro-woman-face"]]. (Yes, this same person has claimed that trans women are "putting on womanface".)

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:43, 9 August 2020
Line 31:		Line 31:

	Where's Spock when you need him...		Where's Spock when you need him...
−	* https://twitter.~~com/wendycockcroft/status/1290208260587307008~~	+
		+	Dammit, Jim.

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 ==8/3 (Monday)==
 ===Wokeness is the enemy now?===
@@ Line 11: / Line 4: @@
 [[File:EefOl5DXkAA1TU-.png]]
-I ''think'' the argument here is that because "woke" people aren't willing to throw trans people under the bus by agreeing with... whatever it is that gender-critical activists want (more gatekeeping around transition?), they're endandering women because more cis men will pretend to be women in order to get into women's spaces and perve on them.
+I ''think'' the argument here is that because "woke" people aren't willing to throw trans people under the bus by agreeing with... whatever it is that gender-critical activists want (more gatekeeping around transition?), they're endangering (cis) women because more cis men will pretend to be women in order to get into women's spaces and perve on them.
 This never actually happens, though... except the occasional "conservative" trying (and failing) to prove how terrible it would be if that ''did'' happen.
 ===Misrepresentation===
-'''[https://twitter.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1290191109910482944 03:41 @ripx4nutmeg]''' "Some gender identity campaigners, including a former Lib Dem councillor, are saying they will not fill out the UK quarantine form to stop the spread of coronavirus when they return from their foreign holiday, as the form is 'transphobic'"
+'''[https://twitter.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1290191109910482944 03:41 @ripx4nutmeg]''' {{q/inline|Some gender identity campaigners, including a former Lib Dem councillor, are saying they will not fill out the UK quarantine form to stop the spread of coronavirus when they return from their foreign holiday, as the form is 'transphobic'}}
 * None of the tweets shown said this, nor do any others in [https://twitter.com/GoatSarah/status/1289942708694351873 the thread] (which was not linked).
 * Other tweets in the discussion indicate strong support for pandemic safety measures.
@@ Line 22: / Line 15: @@
 This misrepresentation has the effect of making trans people & allies look unreasonable.
-A [https://twitter.com/wendycockcroft/status/1290202578089914368 reshare] with the comment "This is nuts" was followed by a self-reply blaming Queer Theory:
+A [https://twitter.com/wendycockcroft/status/1290202578089914368 reshare] with the comment {{q/inline|This is nuts}} was followed by a self-reply blaming Queer Theory:
-'''[https://twitter.com/wendycockcroft/status/1290208260587307008 06:49 @wendycockcroft]''' "This is why: Queer theory, the bastard spawn of Postmodernism, thinks normality itself *is* oppression. It won't accept normality and views anything or anyone who is normal, including LGBT persons, as oppressors. It's why they bash transsexuals.", with a screenshot excerpted from [https://newdiscourses.com/tftw-queer-theory/ "Queer Theory"] on ''New Discourses''
+'''[https://twitter.com/wendycockcroft/status/1290208260587307008 06:49 @wendycockcroft]''' {{q/inline|This is why: Queer theory, the bastard spawn of Postmodernism, thinks normality itself *is* oppression. It won't accept normality and views anything or anyone who is normal, including LGBT persons, as oppressors. It's why they bash transsexuals.}}, with a screenshot excerpted from [https://newdiscourses.com/tftw-queer-theory/ "Queer Theory"] on ''New Discourses''
 Nobody is saying it's not ok to be "normal"; we're just saying "don't bludgeon us with it" -- because the [[issuepedia:Normal/ambiguity|ambiguity]] of the term is often used as a way to condemn behavior that makes them uncomfortable without having to [[issuepedia:burden of proof|demonstrate]] why it's problematic.
@@ Line 33: / Line 26: @@
 ===Bad Argument===
-'''[https://twitter.com/WilliamShatner/status/1290332692622450688 13:04 @WilliamShatner]''' comes down in support of the [[cis is a slur]] myth: "You are talking about yourself. When you use those descriptors towards someone else especially strangers you are more than likely doing it to express a negative comment or to single them out."
+'''[https://twitter.com/WilliamShatner/status/1290332692622450688 13:04 @WilliamShatner]''' comes down in support of the [[cis is a slur]] myth: {{q/inline|You are talking about yourself. When you use those descriptors towards someone else especially strangers you are more than likely doing it to express a negative comment or to single them out.}}
 Ok... so if I'm willing to use a term to describe myself, then I probably mean it negatively if I'm using it to describe someone else.